Curse

Ec]-[oMaN · May 10, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

You want your loyal fanbase to keep playing GW1 so they'll be around to play GW2, don't drive off your entire non-casual player base by making everything in the game an incredibly boring cakewalk.

I dunno but shouldn't the non casual player base already be way past playing PVE, or farming, the only thing I can see left to do is grind out titles. Mind you I'm no hardcore PVE'er but holy, isn't this player base freaken bored of PVE yet?

Red Sonya · May 10, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

They won't Vinraith cause everyone that is non-casual doesn't think like you. I can play 16/7 if I want to which is pretty non-casual and I love the changes and hope for even more power in pve.

I'm thinking most of these changes lately is testing for GW2 and the more they allow me choices and power the happier I'm gonna be and standing inline to buy GW2.

Symeon · May 10, 2008, 04:40 PM // 16:40

ANet mentioned an 'emergent complexity' skill system in GW2. Well maybe this will be a part of it: skills having different effects in PvE/PvP areas, against monsters and against other players, etc. I'd be all for that, as long as each skill had some kind of universal effect to which varying additional effects were added; but black and white numerical differences (50 damage PvP, 100 damage PvE) would not be my idea of complexity.

Pyro maniac · May 10, 2008, 04:47 PM // 16:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elena

hmm now i'm not sure but i thought the cap came cause minion masters dominated too much in pve

dominated AB, hence why it was changed when factions was released

of course the nerf in the dominance of PvE was a really nice side effect

Ec]-[oMaN · May 10, 2008, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

ANet mentioned an 'emergent complexity' skill system in GW2. Well maybe this will be a part of it: skills having different effects in PvE/PvP areas, against monsters and against other players, etc. I'd be all for that, as long as each skill had some kind of universal effect to which varying additional effects were added; but black and white numerical differences (50 damage PvP, 100 damage PvE) would not be my idea of complexity.

Seriously what's the difference between a number, an effect or both. Absolutely nothing, all of the above are variant and would invoke complexity.

Symeon · May 10, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Seriously what's the difference between a number, an effect or both. Absolutely nothing, all of the above are variant and would invoke complexity.

Do you honestly think that having a skill simply deal more damage in PvE than in PvP would mean 'emergent complexity'? All that says to me is that PvE gets a bigger number, because PvEers like big numbers.

DarkNecrid · May 10, 2008, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Do you honestly think that having a skill simply deal more damage in PvE than in PvP would mean 'emergent complexity'? All that says to me is that PvE gets a bigger number, because PvEers like big numbers.

I think the way they described it was skills would do different things based on what you're doing. Since they have jumping and swimming this might mean that a FIREBALL won't do anything underwater, a Lightning Storm might do EPIC DAMAGE to everyone in water, or...

arsie · May 10, 2008, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Some stubborn people were finally outvoted, it appears.

arsie · May 10, 2008, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

Do you honestly think that having a skill simply deal more damage in PvE than in PvP would mean 'emergent complexity'? All that says to me is that PvE gets a bigger number, because PvEers like big numbers.

PvEers need bigger numbers because Anet's only solution for making the game harder was to introduce bigger numbers.

550 damage Spirit Rifts in Hard Mode anyone?

The only reason why PvE and PvP is going a seperate way is because Anet cannot make PvE mobs any smarter. Even if they were able to, it'll surely not be able to run on my P4 3ghz.

zwei2stein · May 10, 2008, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

PvEers need bigger numbers because Anet's only solution for making the game harder was to introduce bigger numbers.

550 damage Spirit Rifts in Hard Mode anyone?

The only reason why PvE and PvP is going a seperate way is because Anet cannot make PvE mobs any smarter. Even if they were able to, it'll surely not be able to run on my P4 3ghz.

They can give mobs actuall BUILDS.

Not few random skills that dont synergize a sometimes even hurt mobs more than players.

There are mobs that can give party hell on earth without imba numbers (Jade Brotherhood. Ice Imps.) and those can be improved a lot.

mob of 4 fire imps (from RoF) + 4 Ice imps. We'd see quite a few qq threads how hard they are even if they were L20

shadows of hob · May 10, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

We will see how it works out... we are all probably gonna need 2 tanks and 2 imbagons and 2 spellbreakers to survive against skills that deal 600+ aoe dmg...

Red Sonya · May 10, 2008, 06:18 PM // 18:18

I personally would like the ability to play the UNDEAD...no more burning, bleeding, poison or disease might as well throw in cripple as well from annoying rangers anymore.

Then I will use my GRIP OF DEATH skill "For 60 seconds target touched foe is horrified in his tracks and cannot move, this hex cannot be removed" lol Then "The Undead CLAW" For 8 seconds every attack does 100 armor ignoring damage and cannot be blocked.

I would have so much fun with this skill in AB.

Quote:

we are all probably gonna need 2 tanks and 2 imbagons and 2 spellbreakers to survive against skills that deal 600+ aoe dmg...

See, and who said there wasn't any challenge in PVE anymore?

Antheus · May 10, 2008, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Symeon

ANet mentioned an 'emergent complexity' skill system in GW2. Well maybe this will be a part of it: skills having different effects in PvE/PvP areas, against monsters and against other players, etc. I'd be all for that, as long as each skill had some kind of universal effect to which varying additional effects were added; but black and white numerical differences (50 damage PvP, 100 damage PvE) would not be my idea of complexity.

They're demonstrating what this will mean.

There will be endless level, and the higher you are, the more damage you will deal, diminishing returns and all.

So level 550 million will do 550,000 damage, level 1 million will do 300,000 damage and level 7 will do 9 damage.

This way, the 9 people Who Have No Life will be Gods Walking Among Mere Mortals, and everyone else will happily stroll around pre-searing on easy mode.

People who complain about rank elitism will experience what levels really mean in grind-based games. Even if there will be a level cap, it'll take years of absolute mind-numbing 24/7 grind to achieve (see Zaishen, HA, Lucky, Faction as examples). The hard-core crowd will rely on bots like they do in Lineage and similar games.

But these titles are a perfect example of what balance in GW2 will be. Endless grind that will make Korean grindfest look like an afternoon game.

Savio · May 10, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by arsie

The only reason why PvE and PvP is going a seperate way is because Anet cannot make PvE mobs any smarter. Even if they were able to, it'll surely not be able to run on my P4 3ghz.

They certainly could, and the AI isn't run clientside. But to ArenaNet, making certain groups of people happy is more important than making a good game. Better AI doesn't please the crowd more than the thought of no more skill updates.

Red Sonya · May 10, 2008, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Well I wouldn't say "no more updates" I'd just say updates that are more fun for each perspective group now. I still want updates for PVE skills, heck now they can do all sorts of things with them. Maybe make the mobs more challenging for those that seem to can't find challenge in the PVE game though I don't know why I find it all the time.

Esan · May 10, 2008, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Better AI doesn't please the crowd more than the thought of no more skill updates.

It's only a thought, and a poor one at that because it's a misunderstanding of what Anet actually say. They never said "no more PvE skill updates". Of course people are interpreting them that way, but as a famous philosopher once said, people are retarded

Gregslot · May 10, 2008, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

There are mobs that can give party hell on earth without imba numbers (Jade Brotherhood. Ice Imps.) and those can be improved a lot.

mob of 4 fire imps (from RoF) + 4 Ice imps.

Jade Brotherhoods are INSANE!

And i dont even want to imagine 4 ice imps + 4 fire imps

bhavv · May 10, 2008, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarlinBackna

In comparison of other games that do the same thing....oh wait....I can't think of any other games that ever did this. Get the point? They tried balancing PvE/PvP without going to this drastic measure, and after years of griping and arguing, they finally had to go to it. Other high-traffic games don't nearly care as much about balance and pleasing both the PvE and PvP crowd as Anet does, and you have to pay monthly for those games.
Pretty sure they have been listening to all the QQing about skill updates all these years and realized that this is the closest we can achieve to being satisfied.

Other games at least put PVE > PVP.

I guess that doesnt matter much for PVP IWAY scrubs, but for a PVE player it does. We have gone through three years of skill balancing in favour of PVP, while making the skills less and less effective and fun to use in PVE. People have complained for YEARS and were just told by PVP scrubs to 'lern 2 adapt u nub and change ur bild lol'.

Anet's answer was to first give us PVE only skills - mostly useless for a H/H er because you can only use 3 at once. Then they gave us Ursan and just turned PVE into IWAY. NOW they do what they should have done all allong from the first place - seperate the PVE skills from the PVP ones.

And your comparison to other MMO's is moot. The reason why GW needs so many more skill fixes is because the skills are mostly broken in the first place (lol Imba skills from NF). Most of the skills are just completely useless as well and hardly ever used, they were just put there to make the game look pretty and make people think 'Oooooh!!! Shiny skill buttons'.

Anet have continuosly failed with their approach to handling this game. They greated a masterpiece, and eventually turned it into a disaster.

Risus · May 10, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

Oh great...why not just make the entire current meta PvE only skills? At least I get my Sundering spammer back (I hope).
200 dps vs. level 24+ foes isn't too shabby on a ranger.

snaek · May 10, 2008, 09:57 PM // 21:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Other games at least put PVE > PVP.

I guess that doesnt matter much for PVP IWAY scrubs, but for a PVE player it does. We have gone through three years of skill balancing in favour of PVP, while making the skills less and less effective and fun to use in PVE. People have complained for YEARS and were just told by PVP scrubs to 'lern 2 adapt u nub and change ur bild lol'.

Anet's answer was to first give us PVE only skills - mostly useless for a H/H er because you can only use 3 at once. Then they gave us Ursan and just turned PVE into IWAY. NOW they do what they should have done all allong from the first place - seperate the PVE skills from the PVP ones.

And your comparison to other MMO's is moot. The reason why GW needs so many more skill fixes is because the skills are mostly broken in the first place (lol Imba skills from NF). Most of the skills are just completely useless as well and hardly ever used, they were just put there to make the game look pretty and make people think 'Oooooh!!! Shiny skill buttons'.

Anet have continuosly failed with their approach to handling this game. They greated a masterpiece, and eventually turned it into a disaster.

prioritizing pvp is a bad thing?

i play(ed) gw cuz it does(did) prioritize pvp more than it did pve

if u want a game that does pve>pvp, then go play the million other games out there that do

and unfortunately for me, gw is the only game that does pvp>pve afaik
(tho they still do care bout pve too)

the perfect situation for me is if anet disregarded pve skill balance completely
and did everything based on pvp
unfortunately, that would piss a lot of ppl off

but seperating pve & pvp now allows them to do this
and hopefully the pve'rs can stop qq'ing

btw, how many other mmorpgs have u played?
their pvp is complete crap
and their builds r complete crap
they're so broken and imba
gw's skill balance is a blessing compared to other games